Cabinet Planner
General >> Cabinet Planner >> Anyone using CNC? http://cabplanner.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&num=1257957264 Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Nov 11th, 2009, 09:34am
I’d like to hear from anyone using CNC along with the program so that I can maybe streamline the process.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Bergstrom on Nov 11th, 2009, 1:30pm
I am not currently using a CNC but that is where I am headed and have been saving to buy one for a while now.
I spent several years at a shop working with Planit software in conjunction with a Weeke CNC. During that time I became convinced that using nested base CNC production was the direction I wanted to go.
I have often wondered if the sheet optimization feature in Cabinet Planner could be configured to generate DXF files which in turn could be converted to G-code by the CNC.
What "streamlining" did you have in mind ?
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Nov 11th, 2009, 1:53pm
Well I'm not real sure.
I've looked into creating a DXF file but haven’t been able to make heads or tails of them.
The program currently has the ability to create the parts lists in a CSV (comma separated value) format that can be pasted into an excel file and then be imported into third party programs to create the g-code. I can skip the pasting step and just create the CSV file.
I've also looked into creating the g-code during the panel optimization process but that gets pretty involved and needs a way to edit the results.
Basically I'm looking for someone who is familiar with the whole process of working with cnc’s, as well as help with testing whatever output I come up with. Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Jeff on Nov 11th, 2009, 3:04pm
Rob,
You will also need to consider the 5mm holes for shelves, drawer slides and hinge plates as well as the ability to edit their location as different people use different methods for attaching hardware.
You will also need to be able to create dados and grooves.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Nov 11th, 2009, 3:10pm
Right, that's what I meant by editing the results.
Are you using a cnc?
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Jeff on Nov 11th, 2009, 4:08pm
I dont use one, nor do I know how to operate one.
I do build a frameless cabinet using the 32mm system so I am very familiar with hardware placement and the specifics of where system holes need to be.
People that are using CNC have typically surpassed my production requirements. Where I use a slider to cut my sheets, 23 spindle boring machine for my system holes, separate saw to groove for backs, and a construction boring machine for dowel assembly, the CNC will perform all these functions (and more) at the one machine. You need to output code for all these functions and more, hence the $4k + price tag for KCD or similar.
You should focus on brining your software in line with KCD in terms of graphics, pricing, cutlisting, cabinet customization, cabinet libraries, etc. Then worry about adding the output to CNC as you really need to be able to get all the holes and grooves in the panels before you can leap to CNC. I guess what I am trying to say is the software must design a cabinet exactly as its built, not by fudging a few variables to make the picture look right, all the variables need to be correct in the software. And I dont just ,mean how I build a cabinet, it must accommodate how everyone builds a cabinet as nobody does it exactly the same.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by NickB on Nov 11th, 2009, 5:01pm
Rob, I use cnc and man would it be great to stream line right into toolpathed out put!! I have CabinetPartsPro and I showed your program to that guy and thought the two of you would have an awesome package if it was combined!
Do you not want to be involved with another programer on this?(That is why I have no buisness partners!!) What can I do to help work this out? Even a dxf with the vectors after nesting for toolpathing the cab parts would be cool. I'm still new at cnc
THIS WOULD BE GREAT!!
Nick
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Bergstrom on Nov 11th, 2009, 5:25pm
I've looked into creating a DXF file but haven’t been able to make heads or tails of them.
The program currently has the ability to create the parts lists in a CSV (comma separated value) format that can be pasted into an excel file and then be imported into third party programs to create the g-code. I can skip the pasting step and just create the CSV file.
I've also looked into creating the g-code during the panel optimization process but that gets pretty involved and needs a way to edit the results.
Basically I'm looking for someone who is familiar with the whole process of working with cnc’s, as well as help with testing whatever output I come up with.
Rob,
I would be happy to help with whatever you need. I still have access to 2 cnc machines so I could test whatever you come up with.
As far as file type I still think DXF files are the most universally accepted extensions but I am sure that something could be worked out with the CSV files as well.
The Planit software associates part types with "external operations" which means that a part tagged as an end panel would have the predefined machining operations applied to it such as line boring,climb cutting etc.
In the "CNC Center" the user assigns these external operations based on their construction technique.
Here is an example of a DXF file that I made and then machined.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Nov 11th, 2009, 5:33pm
Quote:
You should focus on brining your software in line with KCD in terms of graphics, pricing, cutlisting, cabinet customization, cabinet libraries, etc.
I'm a step ahead of you here For the last six months or so I've been working out some of the kinks in adding a customizable library to the program. http://cabinetplanner.com/cabfab.html
In the past one of the biggest problems I've had with adding new features is making them work with existing ones. Since I know I want to add some sort of cnc output in the future, I thought it would be wise to check into it now before going to far with the library.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Jeff on Nov 11th, 2009, 7:09pm
Dont get me wrong Rob, I think the software is great. If I didnt, I would have purchased KCD or something similar a long time ago.
I just dont think you are quite there yet for CNC, but by the looks of that link you will definitely get there and are on the right track. Just dont forget about all those holes and grooves.
Personally I put priority on the 3D graphics. I would like to see the lines a little cleaner and less jagged. This is what helps sell the job in the first place. I would also like to see a cutlist diagram that works how most will actually cut their sheets. All side rips then crosscut, all bottoms rips then crosscut, etc. In other words put parts of like width together.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Nov 11th, 2009, 7:34pm
No, I understand what you're saying. It’s just that with something like this program I need to think 10 steps ahead so there isn’t a problem with forward compatibility.
One of the main reasons for wanting to add the cnc output is that I loose about 100 sales a year from not having it. If it turns out to be a simple matter of adding the ability to create a CSV file I can to that in a day or so.
As to the 3D rendering, I've tried every method I can find to get it to look better but none of them seem to work. On one of my test machines I'm able to go into the video card settings and switch from software anti-aliasing to hardware anti-aliasing and the results are awesome. Unfortunately that isn’t an option for most users and it will effect any other 3D programs they may run. Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by NickB on Nov 11th, 2009, 7:49pm
Is it hard to turn the nested sheets to dxf output? I know nothing about how that stuff works. But I can import dxf into my toolpathing software and have it ready to cut in no time.
Nick
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Nov 11th, 2009, 8:00pm
Is it hard to turn the nested sheets to dxf output? I know nothing about how that stuff works. But I can import dxf into my toolpathing software and have it ready to cut in no time.
Nick
It shouldn't be if I could figure out the format of a DXF file. They seem to include a lot of info that isn't really needed for something like this.
Can your toolpathing software export a DXF file. If so it might help me to take a look at it and compare it to the info about the file structure for them.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by WarnerDesigns on Nov 11th, 2009, 9:58pm
No not using cnc at this time but looking into it every day. I use e-cabinets as well as your program. When I get a big job, I design on e-cabinets and send file to a woodshop with a machine that can handle file and they cut for me, I assemble. Would really like to see your program handle cnc, looking into shopbot. Thanks again Rob for everything you do.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by NickB on Nov 12th, 2009, 07:56am
Rob, I sent you an email with a dxf attached let me know if it works.
Warner look at CAMaster CNCs they are really nice and I have meet the guys that run/own the company and they are outstanding guys! I have a Chinese import and would NOT recommend going that route to save a few thousand. I have spent more than that in head aches
Shopbots are nice as well I have seen those and there forum is FULL of knowledge but they seem a little arrogent to me
Just my thoughts. If you or any one else has questions I will gladly direct you to what I have thought to be some of the most generous people in the cnc world to help you!
Nick
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Nov 20th, 2009, 12:35pm
Here's a link to an update which will create a csv file for the box parts if csv is selected in the General standards. It will prompt you for a name and location for the file.
Let me know if this will work for anyone.
[Link removed]
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by NickB on Nov 20th, 2009, 3:28pm
Rob I DL the update and checked the box, when will it ask for a place to send the file? Do I need to click on print CVS? Do I need to reboot my computer after the update??
Thanks, Nick
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Nov 20th, 2009, 3:36pm
It will create the file when you press the button next to "Box material and master list" in the CALC window.
No rebooting is needed for the updates.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by NickB on Nov 21st, 2009, 4:06pm
I tried to put it into CPP but no luck
Any other ideas??
Thanks, Nick
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Nov 21st, 2009, 4:19pm
Have tried contacting CPP to see what they say about importing parts and not cabinets?
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Nov 22nd, 2009, 2:09pm
Well, here’s a start.
[Link removed]
Press the CALC button and select the material to create the panel layout for. Above the “Method one” button put a check in the box labeled “Create .dxf file” and then cycle through the panels.
The program will create a folder on your desktop name “Cabinet Planner DXF files”. For each material type in the job (oak ply, particle board, etc…) it will create a .dxf file with each panel on a separate layer. Just guessing, but I assume each panel should be a separate layer instead of a separate file.
The only possible problem might be that I haven’t figured out a way to predefine the layers since I don’t know how many there will be until it is done creating the file, kind of a catch 22. I could define a layer for each part but then you’d end up with a bunch of empty layers.
So far it seems to work though. I’m able to open the files with my CAD program and with SolidWorks eDrawings 2010.
Let me know if it works or needs some tweeking.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by NickB on Nov 22nd, 2009, 5:50pm
You are working hard on this THANKYOU!
Ok I did the dl and it worked as you said but when I tried to import it into my cadcam software it said unable to open file?? I use ASPIRE to toolpath my parts. If it is creating to many layers it might over whelm it but I am not for certain.
When you open it in you cad program is it a pile of vectors all stacked on eachother??
Thanks, Nick
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Nov 22nd, 2009, 6:22pm
It's probably because the layers aren't defined in a table section. I will have to do a little more studying on this.
This is what I get with my CAD program. It puts everything on one layer. The other one I have doesn't have a problem.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Nov 22nd, 2009, 8:47pm
Just uploaded a new version that should take care of the layer error (if that's the problem).
I'm also downloading a trial version of AutoCAD. Apperantly it has the ability to check dxf files for errors, should come in handy with getting this working properly.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by NickB on Nov 23rd, 2009, 06:30am
IS the new version on that last link??
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by NickB on Nov 23rd, 2009, 06:45am
Just tried again and it didn't work even tried a smaller file You can go to the Vectric site and download a trial version of Aspire or even Vcarve pro they both have the ability to import dxf,pdf,Ai and several more file types (including3d files in aspire). It is really good software for CNC. And then you can tool path the parts from there.
This might help you figure out what is needed. I hope I'm helping a little in your quest.
Nick
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Nov 23rd, 2009, 9:20pm
Uploaded another new version which seems to be is working.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Nov 24th, 2009, 10:25pm
Another version has been uploaded.
The optimizer now has a setting for a margin around the edge of the panel incase they need to be cleaned up. This is something I've been meaning to do for a while.
The issue with the layers has also been taken care of, 7 panels will turn into 7 layers.
And thanks to AutoCAD, the DXF format has been confirmed to be correct. Incase anyone is interested I'm using the “Release 12” format. It is kind of an old format but from what I've read is still one of the most used for this type of work.
To do list: Let user select where to save output files Write some kind of editor to place/adjust dados, shelf holes and toekick notches. (That should be interesting) Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Dec 1st, 2009, 10:38am
Just uploaded another new version. I changed it to use a single poyline for each part instead of individual lines. That should make it easier to edit the file with another program.
It also now does the toekick notches and dados.
One thing I'm not sure about is how partitions are handled when both sides need to be dadoed, especially if each side is different. For this reason I haven't added the dados to the partitions yet. And I still need to work on the dados for the sides of combined cabinets.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by NickB on Dec 1st, 2009, 1:46pm
Is it on that same link? I will give it a try later
Thanks, Nick
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Dec 1st, 2009, 1:49pm
Yep, they will always be the same link.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Dec 1st, 2009, 2:55pm
Forgot to mention, there is now a setting in the Base Standards for the toekick cutout depth. If you don't enter a value you wont see the toekick in the dxf drawing file.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by NickB on Dec 7th, 2009, 4:14pm
How do you set up for the dados on the carcase parts?
Rob,I sent an email to you as well.
Thanks, Nick
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Dec 7th, 2009, 4:18pm
If your dado depth is greater than zero, the dado will automatically added to the file.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by JGCW on Jun 2nd, 2010, 12:46pm
Looking forward to the progress Rob. I will soon be the proud owner of my first CNC.
Still looking for the right deal.
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by randyhughes47 on Jun 12th, 2010, 12:17pm
Rob, Just purchased your program and looking for how to export a DXF file for the parts. If I can get a dxf either for the parts individually, or from the nest, then I can load it into my CAM/CAM software to see how the gcode comes out for the CNC.
Thanks Randy
Re: Anyone using CNC?
Post by Rob on Jun 12th, 2010, 2:02pm
Randy,
Press the Calc button on the main widow. For the cabinet box parts press the OK button that is next to "Box material panel layout".
The program will cycle through the cabinets and build the list of parts and then it will ask the source panel sizes. After this the optimizer window will open. put a check in the box labeled "create .dxf output" and then run through the optimizer. After pressing Next to go through creating all the nested sheets a dialog window will open for you to select a name and location for the dxf file.
For the last six months or so I've been working out some of the kinks in adding a customizable library to the program.
